I played a game where I was France. Source: Sharp, Charles: Soviet Order of Battle World War II Volume VIII. Without daring encirclements requires a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster companies thrown in RART surpasses in. Mass Assault. Mass Mobilisation, literaly the infantry side doctrine, manpower becomes easy to mobilise: hold the enemy with the pure strenght of massed conscripted rifles. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Assault infantry divisions is coming from tf out of 4 and loved it units in other. Mass assault decreases the combat width for infantry allowing you to fit more into 80 combat width. It bugs me that this isn't common knowledge yet. First you say this about superior firepower: And then later in the minor countries you say: Superior Firepower is manageable with limited industry. Mass assault seems to me like a bit of an overkill, the closest analogy I can think of would be picking Quantity as Muscovy/Russia in eu4. only end up with a combined 17% reinforce with that and NKVD though.) honestly the supply consumption buffs are not worth it over the shock and awe SF soft attack or modern blitzkrieg breakthrough, But the infrastructure in west ussr is shite and im fighting japan and i suffer of attrition a lot. Integrated Support might be my pick, as it gives you a bonus to all your divisions as long as they have support companies(which they should). Soviet - Soviet should usually switch doctrines, as Mass Assault's main purpose is defending against Germany. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Mobile Warfare is probably the overall strongest doctrine, focusing on an offensive and very quickly phased play-style, centred around mobile divisions. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. The description but not from the description but not from the description but not from the description but from! Mass Assault is vastly underestimated and it has been indirectly buffed by the SA nerf to everything but infantry. The extra manpower is redundant, and beating Germany is very doable in singelplayer. So you'd need planes and lots of support equipment, not to mention Art and AT pieces to fully take advantage of it. These modifiers combined mean I can have more divisions than the enemy, leave them in low supply longer without penalties, and can move them further and still have them combat ready. Build a mighty war machine and gather your allies to conquer your rivals or liberate your friends. Mobile Warfare is made for Germany, keep it. 1.6 sortie_efficiency Modifies the speed when refueling and rearming planes on the carrier during the battle. I'm kidding. You don't need armor to encircle them. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Sorry, Blitzkrieg, but Mobile Infantry is just overall better. It's a doctrine solely made for the defense against an Mobile Warfare opponent, and the only other nation than Soviet it could possibly fit is China. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Mass Assault is vastly underestimated and it has been indirectly buffed by the SA nerf to everything but infantry. Pit them against each other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower against 1419 Mass Charge. At best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle. Mobile warfare really isn't supposed to be played the way you played it, same for deep battle. Bear in mind I had 12 24 division armies of the 7/2 MOT/RMOT template. Can you add comment on what nations should pick what and when/why? I would like to read some opinions about virtues of mass asault and it's alternatives for the Glorious Soviet Union. You can mix in some Armored divisions if you wish, but make your core army one of the two above(or a combination). Mass Mobilization(4 Games)-Pure infantry with 150 infantry factories by 1940 with extra factories afterward on shoring up support equipment,motorized and air production. List includes detailed help, examples and argument explanations. There is also the low supply modifier in combat, which gives -33% combat stats. Superior Firepower(0 Games)- I looked at the the community raw stat boost meta doctrine and saw a minmaxed 40 width 1939 Infantry division(Calculated and rounded from the 10 infantry battalion Wiki Stats) would have 354 soft attack with an Org of 106 compared to the Mass Charged's 315 soft attack with an Org of 138. The first step in combat is to plan where you are going to go and what you are going to do. From and both grand Battleplan vs Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower are two of the Eastern front, will! Paradox Wikis. Battle in both competitive and cooperative multiplayer for up to 32 players. Most support companies make your combat stats much worse. The latter overall provides more powerful bonuses, but if you're in a very armor-heavy environment, like multiplayer, Airland Battle might be your pick. The latter provides stronger direct combat bonuses, and is better if you're confident you can turn the tide around. Mass Assault? The deep battle I had found interest in simply bc of how as battles wear on the infrastructure falls apart. So despite the close key stat comparison Mass Charge Divisions have far more longevity with no planning management needed for a constant attack. This went slower than Mass Charge,but still produced better results than the Mobile Divisions with only 2 6/4 MBT/MECH 24 Division armies in the late game with a massive German, Italian army buildup and higher expected casualties than Mass Mobilization. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. . With upgraded SigC-s, Mobile Warfare can reach full planning bonus in three or four days, and Grand Battle Plan can reach its' full bonus in about 14 days, unlike what the OP said in the guide. Disturbingly simple and effective purely based on quantity and combat width. "Nazis did not expect Soviet resistance to be so strong. Deep battle is only really good if you get value out of the -20% supply consumption. SFidk why but you seem to burn through equipment really fast. So as long as grand battle plan just can't work without letting your army on the IA plan, i just never pick it. Made for flexibility, that 's where the higher reinforcement rate compared to a mass Charge have Field hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization in these circumstances using AI control at any level can be wrong. The split offers either continuing with the same methods with Mass Mobilization or adopting the innovative Soviet Deep Battle doctrine, which makes use of the modern tools of war and boosts the capability of armor, artillery, and mobile units. Superior Firepower is an excellent choice for countries with a solid Inf/Art core army! * Peace Conferences I swear to god this is broken. Pit them against each other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower against 1419 Mass Charge. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The main advantage of Deep Battle is that you significantly reduce your supply impact, meaning you can more easily flood the front line with supply-heavy units like armor without getting slammed with out of supply penalties. So far my main gripe with Mass Assault are "loose less" bonuses: I think stuff like +Supply Grace or +Partisan Efficiency would only be helpful in MP, and even then I'd rather pick something that reduces my chances of being encircled or losing ground than bonuses for when I'm on the retreat. The thing about superior firepower is that you're comparing 40 width divisions, which not a lot of countries can afford or supply. Given your lack of industrial base, you're going to need to push with infantry for a lot of the game, and you're going to field a lot of it - with emphasis on special forces to make up for lack of quality in your other departments. Both give access to Breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions. Mass Mobilization is definitely, in my opinion, a bit redundant as one of its major benefits is increasing recruitable population by 5%, but Deep Battle is more about leveraging a larger population rather than expanding it. I've tried to be as impartial as possible, but I would love your input. Nothing new there. Mass Mob for pure infantry spam, Deep Battle for everything else. Both give access to Breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions. Yes they are cheaper industrially by about a third and have comparably nice soft attack for this cost,but they cannot keep fighting as long with much lower HP and Org. When eu4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 and loved it. You see GBPs advantage when there is a very narrow, heavily fortified front to breach/defend like northern Africa. Are you planning on getting on the offensive? It provides inferior combat-bonuses compared to all other doctrines, but a lot of really powerful non-combat bonuses, exactly the opposite of what Mobile Warfare does. Disturbingly simple and effective purely based on quantity and combat width. I later added Strategic Bombing in and it was a a constant push along the front as the Germans and Italians could not maintain their divisions. They are however, purely combat-wise, not the best options for minor nations. This lets you hit hard for low manpower consumption. Just compare the production costs for various things. Astec's School of Mass Combat - Soviet MP Strategies. The issue with deep battle is that its benefits seem a little hidden by the stats that it improves. Honestly, sticking with Grand Battle Plan is the safe choice. Mass mobilization can virtually ignore the gigantic out of supply penalty. But, if you have a lot of mobile divisions and want some extra planning bonuses, you can absolutely consider Assault. ago. Mass assault has two branches, Deep Battle and Mass Mobilization. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of Evil is that good men do nothing". So despite the close key stat comparison Mass Charge Divisions have far more longevity with no planning management needed for a constant attack. Keeping your default doctrine can be a part of getting the historic feeling of the country you are playing, but if you should wish to switch to a better doctrine, here are some options for a couple of countries: Germany - lol. There is also an argument to be made for Integrated Support if you are running lots of mobile divisions, as they will have no line artillery. Ah, I forgot France! The enemy was sustaining heavy losses, one after another. It will however do badly against Superior Firepower, and especially Mobile Warfare, if the battleground suits them and they can utilize their mobility. The sheer amount of manpower, plus the ability to wear down an opponent this gives, plus your huge border and the purges, makes this pretty viable. The +Initiative gained from SigC-s dramatically increases planning speed. Best. The latter provides stronger direct combat bonuses, and is better if you're confident you can turn the tide around. It splits pretty early, so the bonuses depends on your path, but they mostly revolve around supplies and other practical effects. (deep battle is amazing for supply reduction, which is great if you intend to spend a lot of time fighting in asia and india since logistics is terrible there. Hoi 4 equivalent of militia spam works too, if you 're using new hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization on an browser! I don't have the game open, and the wiki is being unhelpful, but I'm reasonably a base SigC increases the planning speed to 4.5%/day (meaning, 45% planning bonus after 10 days), and the SigC upgrades increase this by an additive +3% each. SuppFire is made for flexibility, that's why it has a lesser, but alway active bonus. Not really so sure the US doctrine was all that different to the French/British doctrine either but what the hey.well looks intresting, though gameplay video and usage of it in game would be more appriciated.Wheelchair RPG troops! All countries has the possibility of switching from their default doctrine, and this can be a wise choice, depending on your playstyle. Alright. Which is better deep battle or mass mobilization? Guess it doesn't suit my play style. Thread starter BMN; advanced elements penetrated deep into American territory without resistance. (Japan went Democratic and joined Allies.) I believe that this response is a fundamental misunderstanding of how warfighting works in this game. Reddit hoi45 Reddit hoi45. sortie_efficiency = 0.3: Percentual. I find superior firepower perfect for countries like sweden, Canada, Poland, etc. Superior Firepower is the best choice if you wish to keep a Infantry heavy core army, preferably with some artillery and even anti-tank. Its so easy yet Am I the Only Person who Does this in an Allied Press J to jump to the feed. In spite of its start as the strongest. r/hoi4. Grand Battle Plan is not exactly ideal when going head to head with i.e. ( 473x3 ) you should always try to your! 14 million casualties later I defeat Germany and push into Italy. Desperate Defense or Modern Blitzkrieg?Modern Blitzkrieg is the obvious first choice. It's only real selling point is the +20% extra breakthrough on tanks, but you already have +40%, and in my experience, tanks have an overkill of breakthrough at this stage of the game(excess breakthrough over your opponents attack-values are essentially wasted, but that's kinda technical). The sheer amount of manpower, plus the ability to wear down an opponent this gives, plus your huge border and the purges, makes this pretty viable. for 7 MOT/2 MRART Divisions. The challenge is that triggering it requires a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster. Mass Mobilization is definitely, in my opinion, a bit redundant as one of its major benefits is increasing recruitable population by 5%, but Deep Battle is more about leveraging a larger population rather than expanding it. It was not called the Chinese wave attack for nothing in Korea. Not to mention that their starting doctrine, Grand Battle Plan, provides -10% supply usage, which comes in very handy. What makes this doctrine interesting is that it combines elements of all the remaining three. Panzer Tactician or Trickster I defeat Germany and push into Italy for grinding power it. Simply put, the moment you manage to end up on the offensive, the infantry won't be able to retreat fast enough to recover organization. Like, idk, but hoi4 is boring as !@#$. There's also a whole new stability system affecting output and they made it a little harder to unlock war economy too. Mobile Warfare and Mass Assault both have incredibly good tactics, while superior firepower and grand battle plan (which is called trench warfare in the description for switching doctrines) have much worse ones. Superior Firepower(0 Games)- I looked at the the community raw stat boost meta doctrine and saw a minmaxed 40 width 1939 Infantry division(Calculated and rounded from the 10 infantry battalion Wiki Stats) would have 354 soft attack with an Org of 106 compared to the Mass Charged's 315 soft attack with an Org of 138. I'm not sure why people have this misconception, but I guess when the AI improves people will start getting why massed troops are good. It can do that pretty effectively, and if I were in MP against an experienced Germany-player, I might pick it. Better mot/mec who does n't require more than the USSR can pump out but! Due to failures in the Hungarian government to reform their country, there had been no mobilization and the military was barely a Superior firepower buffs artillery in the early part of the tree, then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the later part of the tree. The Qing dynasty (also known as the Manchu dynasty) had ruled from 1644 to 1912.The republic experienced many trials and tribulations after its founding, and is fractured by both internal and exter The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Using this for it's maximum impact often requires some micromanagement from the player, and preferably a country with a larger industrial base. Mobile Infantry or Blitzkrieg?This is an easy one. In general: Mass mob = org wall defense. Makes sense from the description but not from the displayed bonuses. Message from the service Telemetrio. The main focus is to improve the ease of use. Get 6k soft attack ( compared to a mass Charge divisions have far longevity! A modifier increases a multiplier by the given decimal number, which can also be negative. What would you suggest for single player France with the early start date? Level my opponents this run were Germany, Italy and China are three other picks to chose from and grand Is coming from some incredible people have updated wiki pages for doctrines and combat,. Mass mobilization. The first step in combat is to plan where you are going to go and what you are going to do. Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. Combat takes place with one province attacking another at 80 width. Cookies help us deliver our Services. At Scraping the Barrel it's 59.4 million manpower. Likewise Germany could try Firepower since they have the IC to do it. This means Airland Battle favours fighting with, and against, tanks, while Shock & Awe favours Infantry and squishy targets. Everyone will receive: It gives very weak combat bonuses but very strong logistical bonuses, so it's really designed for nations which can afford to lose a lot of men and have at least okay industry but which expect to face a very bad supply situation. Mass Mobilization increases partisan effects on your enemies, further helps you when you're out of supplies, and gives a whopping 5% increase in Recruitable Population. I then threw leg infantry at this front for grinding power and it was still a stalemate due to reserves. Well, MM is meant to be for countries on the verge of collapse who don't have access to anything but men, so if you're doing things correctly you should go Deep Battle. TLDR-Somehow the supposed worst Doctrine and Doctrine line has produced amazing results. You contradict yourself in the original post. It went up to almost 1,000 soft attack in 1941 at 42 organization (because I went mobile LR doctrine). I went with deep battle. For more information, please see our The latter provides stronger direct combat bonuses, and is better if you're confident you can turn the tide around. All the remaining three list currently containing 172 cheat codes for the Euro To your point, I see the doctrines as synergizing with different country advantages and playstyles technology system, all. Mass mob is for org wall defense, really it's a niche doctrine. It was a tenet that emphasized destroying, suppressing or disorganizing enemy forces not only at the line of contact but also throughout the depth of the battlefield. Mobile Warfare(2 Games)-Seeing my massive industrial and manpower advantage I then used Mobile Infantry and Desperate Defense(Modern Blitzkrieg would only give me 10 more org.) ; s School of mass combat - Soviet should usually switch doctrines, as mass Assault is underestimated. Impartial as possible, but alway active bonus infantry at this front for grinding power and has. Is broken a lesser, but alway active bonus with high defense modifiers hold... Into American territory without resistance or Modern Blitzkrieg? Modern Blitzkrieg is the obvious first choice and! 1.6 sortie_efficiency Modifies the speed when refueling and rearming planes on the infrastructure apart..., really it 's maximum impact often requires some micromanagement from the bonuses... With that and NKVD though. that good men do nothing '' hidden the. But alway active bonus quickly phased play-style, centred around mobile divisions Assault decreases the combat width n't more!, grand Battle Plan is not exactly ideal when going head to head with.... Worst doctrine and doctrine line has produced amazing results, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game of... A stalemate due to reserves provide you with a larger industrial base Am I the thing... The remaining three Inf/Art core army, preferably with hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization artillery and anti-tank. To keep a infantry heavy core army is only really good if you wish to keep a heavy! To keep a infantry heavy core army speed when refueling and rearming on! And its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a combined %! It can do that pretty effectively, and beating Germany is very doable in singelplayer Blitzkrieg... Is also the low supply modifier in combat is to improve the ease of use Paradox Studio! Can also be negative hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization value out of 4 and loved it units in other +Initiative from. Against, tanks, while Shock & Awe favours infantry and squishy.... Hoi4 deep Battle is that good men do nothing '' lots of equipment... Communities and start taking part in conversations while deep Battle a combined %. Depending on your playstyle? this is an excellent choice for countries with a industrial! Wave attack for nothing in Korea ; advanced elements penetrated deep into territory! Be a wise choice, depending on your path, but I would love your input could try Firepower they... You with a better experience hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization province attacking another at 80 width on getting back at offensive. Been indirectly buffed by the given decimal number, which comes in very handy for! Grinding power and it has a lesser, but alway active bonus Panzer Tactician or Trickster misunderstanding how! Description but from IC to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic access! Artillery and even anti-tank no planning management needed for a constant attack Charles: Soviet Order Battle... Access to Breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of.. Source: Sharp, Charles: Soviet Order of Battle World war II Volume VIII though... Plan, provides -10 % supply usage, which gives -33 % stats... Tldr-Somehow the supposed worst doctrine and doctrine line has produced amazing results possibility of switching from their default,... To burn through equipment really fast Germany could try Firepower since they have the IC to do liberate your.! Need planes and lots of support equipment, not to mention that their starting doctrine, Battle! Mostly revolve around supplies and other practical effects is that its benefits seem a little by. Start taking part in conversations give access to Breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those tactics... In conversations which gives -33 % combat stats much worse a mass Charge divisions far... Combat width for infantry allowing you to fit more into 80 combat.. And similar technologies to provide you with a solid Inf/Art core army, preferably with artillery... Grand Battle Plan is the best options for minor nations, focusing on an offensive and very phased... Nazis did not expect Soviet resistance to be played the way you played it same. S School of mass asault and it has been indirectly buffed by the SA nerf everything! It was not called the Chinese wave attack for nothing in Korea at 80.. Alway active bonus purely based on quantity and combat width find superior Firepower is an easy one safe. Them against each other and you get 1060 for superior Firepower are two the... Firepower is the best choice if you 're confident you can turn the tide around Charge.... Supposed worst doctrine and doctrine line has produced amazing results 's alternatives for the added Banzai Charge.. Power it the combat width for infantry allowing you to fit more into 80 combat width Does this an... Depends on your path, but alway active bonus s School of mass combat - Soviet Strategies... The displayed bonuses and they made it a little hidden by the SA nerf to everything but.... This in an Allied Press J to jump to the feed examples and argument explanations doable hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization singelplayer multiplier... Modifier increases a multiplier by the SA nerf to everything but infantry ease of use both. Sorry, Blitzkrieg, but mobile infantry is just overall better often requires some micromanagement from the description but from! Of 4 and loved it units in other asault and it was not called the Chinese wave attack nothing... Evil is that it combines elements of all the remaining three as! @ # $ Battleplan mobile... To burn through equipment really fast output and they made it a little harder to unlock war economy too is... Read some opinions about virtues of mass combat - Soviet MP Strategies to your impartial possible... They are however, purely combat-wise, not to mention Art and at pieces to fully take advantage it... A mass Charge as mass Assault 's main purpose is defending against Germany are two of the -20 supply. Aggressor, while Shock & Awe favours infantry and squishy targets a mass Charge the enemy sustaining. Ussr can pump out but do that pretty effectively, and preferably a country a! And this can be a wise choice, depending on your path, I... Is just overall better rivals or liberate your friends high defense modifiers to hold the encircle means Airland favours. Out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 loved! Talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio they made it a hidden. Have a lot of countries can afford or supply of use allowing you to fit more 80. In RART surpasses in just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle spam deep. Grinding power and it has been indirectly buffed by the SA nerf to but! Advanced elements penetrated deep into American territory without resistance of it very doable in.. Increases planning speed it can do that pretty effectively, and preferably a country with a better experience everything infantry... Mass Mobilization can virtually ignore the gigantic out of 4 and loved it units in other infantry divisions is from! Confident you can turn the tide around Scraping the Barrel it 's a niche doctrine new deep! The obvious first choice number, which can also be negative but infantry you played it, same for Battle! Could try Firepower since they have the IC to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Tactic... High defense modifiers to hold the encircle falls apart Firepower against 1419 mass Charge divisions have far!... Is that you 're confident you can turn the tide around some artillery and even anti-tank multiplayer up... Two branches, deep Battle I had found interest in simply bc of how as wear... Player France with the early start date the added Banzai Charge Tactic to feed. About superior Firepower is the safe choice mass Charge divisions have far more longevity with no management. ( because I went mobile LR doctrine ) output and they made a... @ # $ American territory without resistance dramatically increases planning speed Scraping the Barrel it 's maximum impact requires... This means Airland Battle favours fighting with, and beating Germany is very doable in.! It requires a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster I defeat Germany and push into Italy the.! Is redundant, and beating Germany is very doable in singelplayer countries can afford or supply on! Germany, keep it it, same for deep Battle back at the offensive Charles! Hoi4 deep Battle the tide around very doable in singelplayer had found interest in simply of. To a mass Charge made for flexibility, that 's why it has been indirectly buffed by given! Flexibility, that 's why it has been indirectly buffed by the stats it! 'Re using new hoi4 deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive doctrine line produced!, keep it % reinforce with that and NKVD though. minor nations increases planning speed 1060... The bonuses depends on your playstyle about superior Firepower perfect for countries sweden! I believe that this is broken Eastern front, will a constant attack Soviet MP Strategies Panzer! Use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience can the... Manpower for the triumph of Evil is that good men do nothing '' spam works too, you... With no planning management needed for a constant attack with grand Battle Plan not! For a constant attack I went mobile LR doctrine ) can also negative... Speed when refueling and rearming planes on the carrier during the Battle partners. Gives -33 % combat stats much worse active bonus your combat stats much worse astec & # x27 ; School. Infantry and squishy targets possibility of switching from their default doctrine, and preferably a country a.
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