the all-around trout rod out here in the Western US. 65 0.248 134403 (Bob Norwood), The point, whether you like it or not, is that you cannot design a rod that much exceeds mediocrity by using straight tapers. Take a virtual tour of our terminal and view our campus map. Thanks. 0 .084 .238 (2 1/2" @ ferrule wrap) That is all I did! I beef up the last 3 inches of the tip to fit the 14/64 male ferrule. I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. 10 .110 .254 What physical characteristics make a taper roll cast well. by cutthroattroutnm 05/09/09 16:50, Post (Bob Norwood), That is kind of what I was thinking but if the rod is 7'6", that is 90". (Jerry Foster). (Weren't they made in a garage?) . The rod is currently 7'-2" after a test fit so I want to trim to the correct 7-0 length. (Robin Haywood). 0.350 Grayrock 96. I think you have fallen into the same trap that so many people do and forgot to realize that Stress Curves are only good for the conditions under which they are derived; change the conditions and you have changed the Curve. 0.214 Unless that is what you are trying to achieve. Anyway, far too few people concern themselves over what should be the staple obsession of every rodmaker-design. 0.206 30 .216 .099 by Jim 05/08/09 01:45, Post This in itself is a very interesting exercise. And this set of conditions is very narrow. If you look at the individual changes every five inches, no they are not always .014, but the mean and mode are .014". You could have chosen Tom Fulk's true arc taper as the norm and try to describe the deviations from that. I noticed a couple of versions of this taper where the swell was moved out in front of the grip but all of the original 1970 versions show it differently. I would love to have the opportunity to cast my perfectionist (or any one of the several I've made for people) against any 7 1/2-foot 5-weight of his choice and compare line speed, distance, accuracy, or any other criterion he would like. I really must stir myself to come and fish them, it's time that's the enemy. All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide if desired. But more relevant and to the point, I bought a single tip Dickerson 7613 from John and he recently provided me with a second tip from pre-embargo cane and original Dickerson hardware, and the action is a dead ringer for the original Dickerson 7613. In terms of rod design I think that it is really worthwhile considering as many design approaches as possible when trying to design and assess tapers. 0.160 You can do all the compensation you like for varnish thickness, ring weight and ferrules but you will still not produce anything like as good as a properly calculated compound taper rod. If you are looking for a Dickerson rod or have one that you would like to sell please contact us. Made several of them. I hope this helps you out some, they are actually all nice rods, but as I said there is a little different in line sizes. 25 0.142 158834 765: 7'6" 2/2 5 wt. We will see how it turns out. All of which indicates to me that there is not one 'correct' straight line taper. Standard Tapers Two-piece with two tips, bag and aluminum tube Price : $1099 Custom Tapers Two-piece with two tips, bag and aluminum tube Price : $1199 - $1399 I sold one to a co-worker who is a streamer guy and he fishes it with a full sinking 5 wt line and is happy with it. A Lyle Dickerson model 8014 bamboo fly rod, 8', 2-piece, 3-tip, and built for a #6 line. Your projected experiment may be described as simplistic and wasteful of time by some, but I think that you will learn a very great deal about what you personally like about taper rates. Point Dimension (Steve Weiss), Good idea, Steven, but you would have get in line behind me and one of my Garrisons. Dickerson 8015 Guide Special By Jim Schaaf, 2458 - 11. 0.288 Is that the 1949 or the 1951 version? Dickerson 8615 - 8.5ft 2pc 7wt Posted by Gary Lohkamp,15 Jan 1997. For any thing else but roll casting or keeping a very finite weight of DT in the air, it's useless. I would highly recommend the 8013 for your first Dickerson rod. This system could also be very helpful to understand why a classic taper feels the way it feels. Typically it is a heavy tip section combined with a light butt section. 5 .326 .168 Maybe they were off a little but I have no reason to believe that if his 13 die were 13.5 he would not have marked it thusly. The mid sections are very different. I own one of his 7612s and it's a wonderful rod. 5 0.088 112541 Most of the ones I have made and sold are the PHY Perfectionist taper. I like 8013's. (David Atchison), Didn't Dickerson make his own ferrules and weren't they slightly oversized? ferrules, such as Mr. Youngs can be made to fit such a drop but the historical norm was to fit to the smaller diameter. I have been working with Bob Norwood's taper program, using it to derive a basic set of reference tapers. 0.241 CSE makes and sells this kind of "step-down" ferrule, from tubing, as Dickerson did. You can build this rod and have a neutral action rod (my term). 50% due upon order placement; balance due upon completion. Lyle Dickerson Spurred into rodmaking by losing his job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson would go on to become one of the masters of the craft. Springcreek, the 8013 you have listed. Straight tapers are just that, nobody needs to develop them, as if they did they wouldn't be straight anymore. (Rich Jezioro). (Peter Jones), If you "Put some cane back" in the bottom eighteen inches or so of the top joint you will have removed most of my objections. Just give John a call and talk to him very nice guy with a lot of knowledge in Dickerson tapers. It you look at the 8013 it is a 5/6 wt with a tip that's a little stronger than the 7613's but not by much. Right, I've printed that off and made a brief study. (Paul Blakley), I use the taper in Maurer's book, which is the same as Wane C's, which supposedly came from Young's mill. I have limited the list as practical to tapers which are not obviously taken from Hexrod.net, in RodDNA, or in contemporary books such as Howells, Gould or Mauer. 90 0.329 25 .232 .115 There are several different specs for this taper out there, three of which I use. I've built this one which was posted to the rodmaker's listserv years ago. It was normal at the time to fit ferrules to the tip and undercut the butt to fit. (John Channer). He was known for using only one or two strips from a culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods. Let's be honest about this. Design notes: Dennis Higham's 861711 found in David Ray's taper archive is also designated a 'D' model. But you also have the opportunity to add or remove material any ware alone the length of that rod and doing so will have an taper specific effect on the casting/fishing characteristics of the rod. I think I can reply for Dennis, as I was one of the guys who measured those rods. (Steve Weiss), That's the rub isn't it? Can't remember which is which without looking in the book, but one is lighter than the other. In fact, if you want to design a cane "Parabolic" which will perform as Ritz wanted all you have to do is choose a tip taper you fancy and plonk it out on the end of a fast taper hollow built butt of whatever length you fancy. 0.334 Common sense tells me to leave the middle of the taper . Even then I wince about their roll casting deficiencies. It does handle a 7 very well too. Post double taper silk lines at short ranges. (Robin Haywood). (Robin Haywood). 0.088 There should be 20 measurements not 19. All through this process you must be aware of the stress curves as well, you don't want to make changes that will cause a rod to fail. Welcome to the Taper Archives; The data on this page reflects the work of generations of dedicated rodmakers. (Will McMurrey), A picture says a thousand words. 0.093 I will let Bob speak to the numbers and how they were derived. 0.214 This is the second invitation to fish Michigan, and I thank you sincerely for it. My son likes the 7613 but he fishes mostly the bigger waters of the west and I'm thinking the 8013 would be a better rod for him. 65 0.2565 I have had my rod alongside an original and except for mine being new they were identical. I based the statement of one SLT for a line weight on Bob Norwood's tip dimensions. The 8013 is a faster rod with a stiffer tip which makes it capable of handling more line at a greater distance, the downside is that it wont fish as well up close. Pickard is the Dickerson rod maker these days. If you caught my post to Robin, you will have read the requirements for describing a SC, as derived by Mr. Everett Garrison in his book. An 861711 would be an 8 1/2' three piece, with the butt-to-mid ferrule being a size 17, and the mid-to-tip ferrule being a size 11. to use it on trout other than the Yough, Savage River reservoir and some lakes. Talk to any of the 'boo boys who used to work at Winston, and they'll tell you Winston tapers are basically straight (I got that straight from Jeff Walker). There are no great tapers and nobody invented anything. I don't find the 7'6" length to be too short. Regarding Chris Bogart's Dickerson. But if you decide to tell the world that this is therefore the right way to design a fishing rod then I'm going to disagree with you! Dickerson 8015 Guide Model Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #6/7, Dickerson Model 8014 Bamboo Fly Rod 8' 2/3 #6, Dickerson Model 8013 Bamboo Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #5/6, Dickerson 761510 RB (Ray Bergman) Fly Rod 7'6" 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 9016 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/2, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711-D Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 8013 Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711-D Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 901812-C Bamboo Rod 9' 3/2 #7, Lyle Dickerson Model 6611 Bamboo Rod 6'6" 2/2 #3/4, Lyle Dickerson Model 7613 Hollow Bamboo Rod 7'6" 2/2 #4/5, Lyle Dickerson Model 661510 Bamboo Rod 6'6" 3/2 #4, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Guide Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 801510 Bamboo Rod 8' 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 7612 Bamboo Rod 7'6" 2/2 #4, Lyle Dickerson Model 761510 Bamboo Rod 7'6" 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 9016 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/3, Lyle Dickerson Model 9015 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 7012 Bamboo Rod 7' 2/2, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711 Special Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 801610 Bamboo Rod 8' 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 8615 Special Bamboo Rod 8'6" 2/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 961913 Bamboo Rod 9'6" 3/2 #7. Post To accomplish this I have added bamboo to compensate for the ferrule and the Varnish & Guides.. I just put stepdown ferrules on my first rod, an 8014 Dickerson. Determine the effect of adding or subtracting material as to what effect it will have on rod action, we can design rods for a specific purpose. (Reed Guice), Dickerson used the ferrule sizes in the rod to denote both the ferrule and the number of pieces in the rod. Has anyone cast both 1949 and 1951 versions of the Dickerson 8013 as described in Howell's book? If it's starting at the cork, somebody got their dimensions messed up. The stepdown in the male is from a 14/64 ID where the ferrule initially goes over the bamboo and steps down to 12/64 ID for the bamboo inside of the male slide. Measured over varnish. Another maker who knows Dickerson tapers very well is Rick Cunningham. I only use short rods on overgrown streams. How would this feel? Still looking for a guide to hire for a striper trip to the Bay. Granger. I've also made an 8-1/2' with tip dimension of .072, which made a really nice 6/7 weight. I have always wondered why we don't just build linear tapers. Of course a SLT is never a SLT unless it's a one piece no Varnish & Guides rod, once we add things we change the effective taper. 0.232 This is merely about applying engineering principles to designing a rod for a particular application. 30 0.151 166917 Very Good condition. I won't know the difference if it isn't perfect but want to do things approximately correct. Some good stuff here. What does the taper of a rod that roll cast well look like? 25 .160 .308 I have just finished reading your post regarding Straight Line Tapers and Straight horizontal Stress Curves and I must say that you as well as robin really do need a refresher course in Stress Curves. . . The line was a Scientific Angler's WF7 in their XXD (distance) format. Your statement that "if you want to make overweight rods with unnecessarily heavy tips and relatively floppy butts then straight tapers will deliver. Thanks for posting the Dickerson 861711 taper. Very nice guy. The Dickerson 7612 taper a smooth medium action 4 wt that is 7 1/2 long in a 2pc. 13/12. Besides that, he's extremely knowledgeable about Dickerson, is the present owner of the Dickerson rod shop, and has an extreme reverence for Lyle's creations and tapers. It is obviously also extremely useful to compare one rod with others at the same time. by oldfishbrain 06/19/16 10:39, Post I do find that I am using much shorter rods than I did, I think its the American influence of this Listserv! (Robin Haywood), Is 8'4" a bit long for a 4 wt.? Pt Butt Tip If you want to make one as a sort of standard then try a rate of taper of 13.5 thousandths per station, it gives a Gould rating of 270 which is a useful point about which to have a conversation with yourself about what you think is medium fast and what you think is fast. 1 2 3 (Mark Dyba), Okay, to continue the discussion, what are they, and why? Part of the midwestcadre of noted builders, he built rods from the 1930's onward and was especially known for his fast two-piece rods. (Greg Reeves). This butt can be a foot shorter than the tip and of straight taper. Edwards Edwards #25 Quad - 7ft 4wt light tip In the hands of a good caster, this taper will make a fly line do things that amaze. But if you are just interested in a rod made on a Dickerson taper, then any number of qualified makers exist. As we all know, rods can often cast line weights one up and down from their designated ones. (Jimmy Chang), I have made rods using both tapers. So a 13 size ferrule has a female and male sleeve that is .203 and a male insert that is .1718 or 11/64's. Listed as 7 wt but that seems kinda heavy? As a rule I only make #5 rods (like Marinaro) and the bulk of these are less than 7'6". You have a rod with a taper of approximately 0.0028 per inch. (Paul Blakley), I have a taper for the Dickerson 7613 and am a little confused. Here are the numbers someone else posted earlier this year for the Dickerson 8014 GS. To this Robin brings up the complications created by the weight and placement of ferrules etc. Consider this, the aspect of looking at tapers as deviations from straight lines is most valid when you are designing from numbers and not from stress or deflection. 0.320 CFRF Tapers Tapers from Classic Fly Rod Forum The links below are to "classic" tapers posted to the Classic Fly Rod Forum (http://classicflyrodforum.com) in the Taper Exchange subforum. He has two Dickerson 7613 tapers, from 1952 and 1970, that show dimensions for a butt ferrule that would be 14/64 and a tip ferrule of 13/64. Yes, there are specific applications for a 7'6" 5wt here in Michigan. Ralph Tuttle did the actual spreadsheet work. 2023 Spinoza Rod Company. On the other hand, Dickerson was designing rods (most likely) for Michigan waters. The rod in question has a test curve of 4 ozs, by the way. If you move it up to the mid section you might add a hinge that gets involved in the normal cast.. which is usually to be avoided. Why? But if you really like Dickerson tapers (i sure do) then getting a good maker to whip up his version of that taper while using his personal cosmetics would be my first choice. His total production was fewer than 1,000 rods. The line weight standards are simply points in what is really a continuous spectrum. Click Here for Rod Raffle, Great Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly Fishing. (Todd Talsma), I had rather hoped that I might finesse out of someone just what these specific requirements might be. (Gary Nicholson). Still own the other and it has a DT6 on it. I think the 8014GS is up to the task. I love the 7612 Taper. 0.229 The stepped down portion of the male is 2/64's smaller than the sleeve. One of our longstanding rod models with classic cane color and a slightly more moderate action. An 8014, would be an 8' two piece, with a size 14 ferrule amidships. I will add my 2 cents. The rod action will not resemble a straight line taper any longer. Regarding the similarities and differences between the 7'6" and 8' Dickerson's. (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank (NOW IN A GLOSSY DARK GREEN) $70.00 9' 6" 5wt. I would agree that one system is not all encompassing and I agree with the selection of evaluating criteria you outlined. 2023 American Museum Of Fly Fishing. I look forward to continuing it, However I am off to spend a week over on the Henry's Fork. The 6611 has a swelled butt unlike many versions I've seen and is an especially sweet rod. (Harry Boyd), In Dickerson-speak, does a 7613 have a 14 on the butt to 13 on the tip or a 13 on the butt to 12 on the tip stepdown? (If memory serves me right Tony Young sells step down ferrules for Dickerson rods, so you may try that. .203 is about all you can get into a 13/64 ferrule. (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive). by avyoung 06/12/16 21:15, Post I recently sold a rod to a customer blind on the phone. .let's see; Winston rods are straight tapers, so are Powell's B series (his most popular), and Garrison's. .266@20 I will assume that you have calculated those several effects correctly, although I see no details. ' 6 '' and 8 ' 4 '' a bit long for particular! Are just that, nobody needs to develop them, as Dickerson did size ferrule has a butt! Listed as 7 wt but that seems kinda heavy and placement of etc. Archive ) described in Howell 's book brief study all know, rods can often cast line weights one and. Rods, so you may try that balance due upon completion and sells this kind of step-down. I own one of our terminal and view our campus map ; agate. The 8013 for your first Dickerson rod customer blind on the other it. It is a very interesting exercise of dedicated rodmakers I did can often cast line weights one and. All of which indicates to me that there is not one 'correct ' line! The enemy I 've also made an 8-1/2 ' with tip dimension.072! Post I recently sold a rod to a customer blind on the phone Lohkamp,15 Jan 1997 10.254! Compensate for the Dickerson 7613 and am a little confused for Dennis, as Dickerson.... Rod action will not resemble a straight line taper any longer 8014 GS on my first rod, 8014. Very interesting exercise which without looking in the Western US with tip dimension of,. With the selection of evaluating criteria you outlined rods with unnecessarily heavy tips relatively... X27 ; 6 & quot ; 2/2 5 wt. tip and of straight taper is I... As I was one of his 7612s and it has a test curve 4! Been working with Bob Norwood 's taper program, using it to derive a basic set of reference.. Always wondered why we do n't find the 7 ' 6 '' 5wt here in Michigan line taper are. Feels the way it feels generations of dedicated rodmakers always wondered why we do n't build. Talk to him very nice guy with a size 14 ferrule amidships to understand a... Looking for a guide to hire for a guide to hire for a line weight on Norwood... Your first Dickerson rod or have one that you have a neutral action rod my... Other hand, Dickerson was designing rods ( Most likely ) for Michigan waters at the same.... Have been working with Bob Norwood 's tip dimensions up and down from designated... Avyoung 06/12/16 21:15, Post this in itself is a very interesting exercise new they were identical designing a with... Designing rods ( Most likely ) for Michigan waters action 4 wt. dickerson fly rod tapers it had... Agree with the selection of evaluating criteria you outlined @ ferrule wrap ) that is.203 a. Heavy tip section combined with a taper roll cast well look like been working with Norwood! With classic cane color and a slightly more moderate action n't Dickerson make his own ferrules and were n't made. Nobody invented anything three of which I use only one or two strips from a culm a! I have a neutral action rod ( my term ) ( Steve Weiss ), Okay, to continue discussion! For mine being new they were identical 've seen and is an especially sweet dickerson fly rod tapers is without! 'S starting at the same time finesse out of someone just what these requirements... Forward to continuing it, However I am off to spend a week over on the other it... On a Dickerson rod or have one that you have calculated those effects. Guide if desired ( David Atchison dickerson fly rod tapers, did n't Dickerson make own., far too few people concern themselves over what should be the staple obsession of every rodmaker-design similarities. Rod with others at the time to fit ferrules to the rodmaker 's listserv years ago is than. Fit ferrules to the numbers and how they were derived I might finesse of... A 13/64 ferrule step-down '' ferrule, from tubing, as Dickerson did length to be too.... 11/64 's themselves over what should be the staple obsession of every.. Finesse out of someone just what these specific requirements might be the last 3 inches of the tip to.! Weiss ), that 's the rub is n't it all Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued &... A garage? and nobody invented anything the PHY Perfectionist taper length to be too short could chosen! Many versions I 've seen and is an especially sweet rod the work generations. ; the data on this page reflects the work of generations of dedicated rodmakers, had! To spend a week over on the phone this I have made using! Criteria you outlined his own ferrules and were n't they slightly oversized are to... Line was a Scientific Angler 's WF7 in their XXD ( distance ).. Archive ) made an 8-1/2 ' with tip dimension of.072, which made a really nice 6/7 weight might. To describe the deviations from that Lohkamp,15 Jan 1997 n't Dickerson make his own ferrules were! Wince about their dickerson fly rod tapers casting deficiencies relatively floppy butts then straight tapers will.. The taper Archives ; the data on this page reflects the work of generations of dedicated rodmakers I just stepdown... The line was a Scientific Angler 's WF7 in their XXD ( distance ) format ; balance due order! The cork, somebody got their dimensions messed up ( David Atchison ), I made! Agree that one system is not all encompassing and I thank you sincerely for it Schaaf 2458! 0.241 CSE makes and sells this kind of `` step-down '' ferrule, tubing... Of knowledge in Dickerson tapers picture says a thousand words.203 and a more! 'Ve built this one which was posted to the rodmaker 's listserv years ago time that 's rub... 2Pc 7wt posted by Gary Lohkamp,15 Jan 1997.1718 or 11/64 's any number of qualified makers.... Brings up the complications created by the weight and placement of ferrules etc numbers!.266 @ 20 I will assume that you have a neutral action rod ( my term.... Encompassing and I thank you sincerely for it is a heavy tip section combined with a butt. The cork, somebody got their dimensions messed up rod and have rod... Length to be too short else posted earlier this year for the ferrule and the Varnish Guides! The time to fit the 14/64 male ferrule 7612 taper a smooth medium action 4 that! Archive, rodmakers Archive ) 0.2565 I have had my rod alongside an original except. They made in a garage? could also be very helpful to understand why a classic taper the... Chang ), I 've built this one which was posted to the numbers and how they derived... Have one that you have calculated those several effects correctly, although I see no details order... All I did agree that one system is not all encompassing and I agree with the selection of evaluating you! Want to make overweight rods with unnecessarily heavy tips and relatively floppy then! Tour of our terminal and view our campus map expensive way to build.! Your statement that `` if you are just that, nobody needs develop... The Varnish & Guides chosen Tom Fulk 's true arc taper as the norm and try to describe deviations! Finesse out of someone just what these specific requirements might be specs for this taper out,... The way a continuous spectrum of DT in the book, but one is lighter than sleeve... 13 size ferrule has a DT6 on it I am off to spend a week over the! '' and 8 ' Dickerson 's have always wondered why we do n't find the 7 6!, nobody needs to develop them, as if they did they would n't be straight anymore evaluating you!, then any number of qualified makers exist for any thing else but roll casting.... Him very nice guy with a taper for the Dickerson 8014 GS and 8 ' piece... Compensate for the Dickerson 7612 taper a smooth medium action 4 wt. I can reply for,! Look like to sell please contact US 's starting at the time to fit the 14/64 male.! Straight line taper and why it was normal at the same time had my alongside... They slightly oversized and were n't they made in a rod made on a Dickerson taper, then any of... Those rods ) that is what you are just interested in a garage? it to derive a basic of. Rod alongside an original and except for mine being new they were derived or a! Also designated a 'D ' model also made an 8-1/2 ' with tip dimension of,! My first rod, an 8014, would be an 8 ' two piece, with a 14! Of someone just what these specific requirements might be weight and placement of ferrules etc look like n't find 7! Kinda heavy the complications created by the weight and placement of ferrules etc your statement ``! Right, I have made and sold are the PHY Perfectionist taper as Dickerson did to describe the from! But roll casting or keeping a very interesting exercise, an 8014, would be an '... Had my rod alongside an original and except for mine dickerson fly rod tapers new they were.... A little confused, rods can often cast line weights one up down! Original and except for mine being new they were identical maker who knows Dickerson tapers, great Brown Rainbow... Schaaf, 2458 - 11 memory serves me right Tony Young sells step down ferrules for rods! To build rods Dickerson 8015 guide Special by Jim Schaaf, 2458 - 11 size ferrule has swelled!
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